David & Jim Henman - Old Mill Tavern
Dartmouth, N.S. March 20, 1999
Summit at The Old Mill: with Steve Marsh, Darren DeWolfe and Kevin White.
Saturday 20 Mar,1999, we had the pleasure to spend 2 hrs with both David &
Jim Henman. Needless to say (although we will), it was a real thrill to
meet a couple of local/national rock n'roll legends! It was great to talk
with them and to actually meet the people that are your heroes. Putting a
face to a name (especially from David & Jim's viewpoint)is another bonus.
Chatting with them via the internet is definitely not even close to
actually talking and meeting with these two guys. A wealth of untapped
information is still there and hopefully we scratched more than the
surface, during our rendezvous.
The Old Mill tavern in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada was chosen as the
meeting spot because of its significance in April Wine history. We'd like
to thank the Henman's for their time, patience, spirit and friendship.
It's a meeting we won't soon forget and we look forward to any future
meetings or endeavors from both of these fine musicians.
The following interview is transcribed from a recording made at the Old
Mill, with permission from all concerned. It's very factual and quite
interesting, although due to noise
in the place, overlapping of conversations and some general rock n'roll
confusion, it is not 100% as it happened. However, it's damn close. About
90% of the text is as it went down, but there are some corrections here and
there. From a historical point of view, this is of interest to all April
Wine fans.
ENJOY
David: Our first rehearsal was December 1, 1969 so that means that the
meeting that Jim and I had here at the Old Mill must have been a month or
so earlier. We came here one afternoon to drink beer and mull over our
dissatisfaction with our musical careers.
Jim: I always assumed that it was the Lord Nelson Hotel in Halifax
because we were going to Saint Mary's University at the time.
David: You had said, "David, I'm frustrated, we gotta talk." So we
decided to go for a beer and for some reason we ended over here in
Dartmouth. If I'm not mistaken, you were the one who instigated this, you
called me and said, "David, let's get together and we'll talk." I don't
really recall this place now, seems to me it was much larger than this, but
you know how memory changes things. (The place actually underwent 2 or 3
major changes since' 69).
Jim: I don't really remember it either, it was too long ago. Although I
remember the gist of the conversation. We were at the time, in a band
called Prism and things were going slowly. So we said "let's get a band
together and get out of Halifax".
David: So we said, who else can we get. Jimmy had said that Myles was up
in Cape Breton in a band called East Gate Sanctuary with Pam Marsh. And I
had a band called Prism that Jimmy had played bass in for a while. We were
working with this other fellow named George, who was starting to drive us
crazy. So we were like more than ready to try something new, something
different. Jimmy said, I'll call Myles, I think that you said that you
could talk Myles into leaving East Gate Sanctuary or something?
Jim: Actually what I said was, this is what we want to do, da da da,
they were staying in Antigonish at the time, so I went down there, stayed
awhile and he said he'd let me know. After that I came back to Halifax.
Myles agreed to come to Halifax, and when we picked him up at the bus
station, he had two green garbage bags full of clothes and a guitar.
Myles and I had grew up together in Waverley (suburb of Dartmouth). We
both went to Sidney Stephen High School out in Bedford. It's now a Junior
High School
Darren: The common wisdom was that Myles had attended Prince Andrew High
School in Dartmouth and that a teacher had reported that Myles was one of
his students there.
Kevin: ....and that the song "You won't Dance with me", "that Joe told
Fred" part of the song was based on some students at that school.
Jim: I don't know anything about that. Sounds incorrect, since we lived
up at the end of the Waverley Road, quite a piece from Dartmouth, I don't
think that line of thinking is correct. Myles was a couple years behind me
in school. He went away for a year during that period, but we were in a
band then, called "Woody's Termites". Myles left for a year, went up to
Toronto or Brampton I think, and he came back with some new ideas. Lights
shows and sound and all kinds of stuff, that he'd seen while he was up
there for that year. That's where he first got his image of rock shows.
David: Was that before "Woody's Termites"?
Jim: No, when he came back, he came back with Woody's Termites. This
does get a little confusing here (laughs), but Myles then left and we got a
new guitar player in called Lionel Wanes for a year, and then Myles
returned until the demise of Woody's Termites. That's when he went with
East Gate Sanctuary. I then did a couple bar band things, but nothing
concrete. That's when Prism came about, with David and Ritchie.
Jim: When David and I left April Wine, the sound changed so dramatically.
I don't know about David, but I don't care to go back to far and look at
some of the stuff I've written. Hopefully, as time has gone on, you've
matured and your craftsmanship is much better.
David: There is an embarrassment factor as well.
That makes me curious about the song "You Won't Dance with me"? I
understood that the song was a combination of about three songs. Three
slow ballads from "Woody's Termites".
Jim: That's true, it is. One called "Why", one was called "You Won't
Dance With Me" and the other was "Girl". We used to play them at the
Bedford Fire Hall. At that particular time, most of the songs we wrote
were slow ones. We were just starting to learn how to write. It was more
difficult to write a fast song I guess. "haha". In your heart, when
you're 16 or 17, really what you wanted to sing to was girls. Myles had 3
or 4 nice ballads back then. Actually there's another one around that he's
never done anything with. I was talking to Dougie Grace a while ago, and
he called me on the phone and said jeez, a song just came to me. He sang
it to me on the phone and I said that's one of Myles' old songs.
Steve: I recall people saying they saw early April Wine at local schools
and venues in Halifax and Dartmouth. What were the early days like?
Jim: That would've been before we had an album out.
David: Yeah, I think we played quite a bit before we left Halifax.
Ritchie has all the dates of every gig we played as April Wine.
Jim: Not as much as we would've liked, but at that time if you had no
single out or some kind of radio play, there was no demand.
Steve: Did you get any support from the local stations, like CJCH?
David: That was the reason we left. It was because nobody wanted original
bands. If you played original music, the common cry was "hey play
something we know". It's different today. That's why bands like Sloan and
so on are coming out of Halifax.
Jim: I don't think we had anything at that time that you would call
commercially viable anyway.
David: No, but there was a reason for that. We were originally very
anti-commercial. "Fast Train", turned the tide. Myles drove us in that
commercial direction, but our whole credo was that commercial music was
bubblegum.
Darren: That song was interesting, because people immediately began to
respond to it.
David: Yeah, well it drove us as writers in a new direction. We thought,
"oh, well I can do that".
Steve: Next thing you know "Drop your Guns" pops out and ...
David: Exactly!
Jim: My memory of that period was that I personally wasn't studying how
to craft songs, and I don't think you were. But I saw that Myles was, what
I actually saw was a man who was working for 10 hrs a day with a piano and
a guitar, although Myles wrote mostly with the piano. He would work 10 hrs
a day at his musicianship, his craftsmanship. I would assume, looking back
now, that was how Myles learned to craft pop songs. He was reading books
on it; Clive Davis, I know that was one that he read. It obviously worked
for him. That's what he did, he studied it, he went to the "University of
Songwriting."
Kevin: What is the story of how Myles and the Henmans parted company?
David: It sort of evolved that way. I mean, first of all, you've got to
remember how we grew apart. Jim you can corroborate this as well. When we
formed the band, my recollection is this. We had no intention, when we
formed the band, of being a band. Our intention was, as I recall, maybe
this was all in my own head, but we figured it would take us about 6 months
to be as big as the Beatles and that would then launch our own solo
careers, haha...
Jim: I think, if I recall properly, there was some mentality of solo
careers at the time.
David: Something like that. But what it really shows is how naive we
were. You put a band together, in no time you'll be as big as the Beatles,
and away you go. So my memory is that it wasn't intended to be a band,
first of all. So you know we really didn't think that way. I don't recall
ever having that "all for one, one for all" mentality that a band has.
Jim: Yes that was a problem that we did have from the beginning . We
didn't have the direction, a solid direction among all 4 of us.
David: We weren't all on the same page, originally.
Jim: We didn't write together. Matter of fact, one of the things that I
missed in the last 25 years, was that I didn't write anymore with David, I
didn't write anymore with Myles. We didn't write very much, as it was,
together. It was a very solo thing. Even though we were in this business
type of thing, we didn't work as a team.
David: You and Myles had a bond because of growing up together and
obviously my brother and I had a bond. We had two camps almost. And then,
once we got to Montreal, we'd been in Montreal for a year and a half before
Jim left. It was starting to drive him crazy and he needed to get back
home. More or less.
Jim: I needed to get out of the situation I was in, which was the whole
trip. The rock and roll lifestyle. If I had continued in that direction I
would've been dead.
David: Jim was the first to leave, August 1971. We had recorded the first
album in 1971, Jimmy would've left in August, the obvious guy to replace
him was Jim Clench. He was in a band called, the Coven. They were living
in a cabin next door to us in the Laurentian's. We'd been befriending them
and that band was starting to fall apart. Jim was the obvious choice at
the time, we were both managed by the same people, and then the ultimate
demise of the original band came about, I mean Myles and Ritchie were
always pretty much at odds. They had distinctly different personalities
and different styles, musically and everything else. Ritchie is very
precise about everything. He's organized, punctual, etc... and Myles is
diametrically opposite to him. So there was always that sort of
personality clash and then, the main thing was, April Wine was a democratic
band. Myles has never disputed this, because I more or less brought this
up to him. April Wine was a democratic band. I think Myles had way too
much drive. Can you imagine Bryan Adams or Alannah Myles in a democratic
band? I think it was really eating away at him that he had to go through
this process. To a certain degree he wanted to be the boss, although as
time went on, it was more a question of pursuing his views. He had a
vision, he had a direction, he knew where he was going.
Having to do everything democraticly, bureaucraticly so to speak,
having to go through this process of getting everybody to agree and so on
and so forth, I think was driving him crazy. I think he needed at that
point, he reached the point where he needed to go in the direction he had
to go with or without the band.
He more or less expressed it to us like this. We had a meeting in Toronto
at the end of the first cross Canada tour. We were at an outdoor patio in
Toronto, he had already talked to Jimmy Clench and Jimmy was onboard. So
the meeting was with me. Myles had already decided at that point that he
wasn't going to be working with Ritchie, they just didn't get along
together. So he was looking beyond that. The meeting was with me to say
ok, we're going to disband April Wine as is. Myles said Jimmy and I want to
do this or whatever and do you want to do it. I don't know what I said
right away, but I probably said let me think about it. Obviously, I said
let me talk to my brother, we did everything together at that time. I
decided at that point, where it was going in a new direction, more or less,
it was made clear to me that it was going to be Myles' band. It was going
to be his show, whether it was called April Wine or whether it was called
Myles Goodwyn or by another name, it was going to be Myles' show. And I
would be more or less a hired gun. And I was still 23 at the time or 22
and I said to myself, I'm still young. If he's going his way, I'll go mine.
Everybody said to me, when everybody heard what was going on, this is going
to be successful. Stick with it for another 2 or 3 years, get the benefits
of it and then you can get the musicians to start your own project. They
may have been right or wrong, who knows. But when you're 23 you don't
think in terms of what makes sense. I was thinking of what I wanted to do
now.
Jim: I can't speak of that. But when I heard what was happening. I
said Ritchie man, I do know that in terms of experience the most important
thing we were looking for was radio play. There was only one guy that was
able to see the direction to that. And could plan towards that and would
know what would work and what would not. That was Myles. I couldn't do it
and David and Ritchie weren't doing it. Although David could, but at that
particular time he didn't. So naturally he was the one that was going to
be used by the business, the radio stations and the record company. That's
what Myles gave and he started on that road and he kept on that road. I
didn't, therefore I was on the outs, so to speak.
David: I had gotten onto that track after Myles. I came up with "Drop
Your Guns", so I had a quote unquote "hit" under my belt, so I still had
some degree of respectability within the band for that. So that was
probably part of the reason I was asked to stay.
Jim: I expected you to stay, and I can understand the loyalty you felt
towards the band.
David: Well I wasn't just gonna dump my brother, as well, so their was
loyalty there. Also, there was a sense of liberty. I felt the same way
with the band Cats and Dogs, we recently disbanded after 3 years. Anyway,
so when I got the news we were disbanding, it was like Oh! Now can I go in
another direction. You know it was like, I had the same sort of feeling
when April Wine disbanded the original band, and I decided not to go. It
was like, ahhh, a whole new vista has opened up. I can do something new, I
can try something different. And also I was thinking, OK Myles is going
down his road, I'll go down my road and you know, we'll see where we meet.
Jim: There are certain characteristics you need in the rock business.
You have to want to work for it, to stay focused. It's part of you
personality and the work ethic that you were brought up with. And what you
want. What your goals are and what your motivation is.
David: I think I had the same motivation. Right after April Wine split
up, I buried myself in Ritchie's basement, and I was working 10, 12, 14
hours a day. I had to dragged upstairs for my supper.
Steve: Had you thought about putting your own album out?
David: Oh yeah, right away Ritchie and I put another band together called
Silver with a bass player. Yet another trio. And we recorded a single
that wasn't released at all. It wasn't very good, it wasn't a great song
or anything. I think it was called "Serpent in the Street". Silver sort
of evolved into the Dudes.
Jim: Nice band, I likes the Dudes.
David: Ooh I wanted to mention that, there were two reasons why April Wine
didn't continue with me and Myles.
#1 is because I had the same kind of drive as Myles, not as strong,
but the same kind of drive where I wanted to push, make things happen, have
a vision, so on and so forth.
#2 and this is probably the more important one. Myles and I liked each
other, respected each other, have never really crossed swords with each
other, never had any animosity between us. But at the same time, we never
really bonded. Myles and I never really had like a tight bond. We partied
together, did stuff together, liked each other, but there was never
really...
To Jim: You and Myles are bonded forever.
Jim: Yeah. I was, in a way, the instigator of April Wine
David: Absolutely
Jim: Yeah, I was the focal point and then two years later I leave, haha,
but that was my pattern. Stay with a band for 2 years and then leave.
Steve: Did I hear about an original reunion in Quebec last year?
David: April '98, Easter weekend, first time in 26 or 27 years. It was
April of last year at my brothers place and Jimmy was traveling up that
way.
Jim: I flew to Montreal from Toronto and I wanted to stay a couple
nights with Rich. You were gonna be in town.
David: I was gonna be in town, Ritchie, you and we thought well where is
Myles. So we called Myles and said let's get together. Somebody had
called Myles and said that the Henman's were going to be in town. And he
had said, oh that would be great. In fact, when I knew for sure that Myles
was excited, I heard from somebody on the internet, a fan, that Myles had
brought it up to somebody that the original 4 members of April Wine are
getting together. Then I knew he was interested.
I didn't say anything about the meeting but afterwards I posted to the
April Wine list. We had a get together in Ritchie's backyard, just the 4
of us with wives and girlfriends. We had a very casual, no reason to be
here other than what the heck, here we are.
Jim: Actually, Ritchie is a great collector of stuff, memorabilia,
etc... and he brought out all this stuff none of us had seen in 30 years.
Had a good laugh.
David: Talked about things that we did, brought up some memories, all
clean ones. Yeah it was brief, it was from 2-5 pm. Myles had commitments
afterwards and so we had the 2 or 3 hours. Before we split, we lined up
against my brothers back wall and we had pics taken. Afterwards, that was
when the post was made to list, almost a year ago now.
Jim: After 30 years, it doesn't seem like a long time, although it's a
landmark. It's amazing that this band has kept the name going.
Question arose regarding potential plans for 30th anniversary.
David: Aquarius has nothing to do with April Wine, nothing whatsoever.
That would be Myles' call. Myles would have to have the inspiration to do
anything. I don't how much time Myles spends being sentimental about April
Wine, but...
Jim: None
David: Very little
Darren: How did the band's name, April Wine, Come about?
David: I came up with the band's name. All we were trying to have was:
#1 we wanted a name that was non-descriptive;
#2 we wanted a two word name, because all the bands at the time were THE...
the Beatles, the Stones, the Ventures, so we wanted to get out of that box
of THE things.
So we wanted a revolutionary name that was non-descriptive and so I had the
name April Wine that I was passionate about and nobody else had an
alternative. Nobody else had a better idea and no one was against it, so
we called ourselves April Wine.
Jim: My recollection is that, David and my birthdays were in April and
we both liked wine. haha
David: My recollection was that I was very much a romantic and that had a
romantic context. I was writing romantic songs, I had an imaginary girl
friend called April, haha. And I just liked the sound of it. It had a
nice flowing sound and feel to it. I probably pushed it on the band, I was
a pushy guy. Haha
Jim: You were, still are, ha ha. Remember we used to play some Led
Zeppelin stuff. And April Wine didn't kind of fit that image, and we
didn't want it to.
David: We loved Led Zeppelin, but we thought it was a stupid name. It
kind of pigeon- holed them. Led Zeppelin couldn't play country. The name
Pink Floyd was non-descriptive. That kind of appealed to us.
Kevin: I've noticed that Myles dedicated "Don't Push Me Around" to David
during his 1988 Diamond Club, Toronto show during his solo tour.
David: Myles does that, Myles does that as a show of respect as it were.
If one of us is in the audience at an April Wine concert, he'll acknowledge
that, and I've been at concerts where he'll say and a few words and I go
(ducks).
Darren: I have a show, where he mentions during the intro to "Just Between
You and Me", that "I'd like to sing a song that I wrote for my first wife
and dedicated to my second wife".
David: I've been told many times that during the various tours when they
played "Drop your Guns", Myles would introduce the song and talk about me.
Which is a sort of nice characteristic of his, to show respect.
Darren: Are you on the new Jeannie Beks CD?
Jim: No, unfortunately with my latest work I've been doing, I didn't
have a chance to do anything for...
Kevin: Are you doing anything with Jerry Rideout nowadays?
Jim: No, Jerry and I haven't done anything lately, but that was my first
stab at getting back into writing. I'd stayed away from it for years.
That would've been 1992.
David: Do you know what Jimmy's doing now?
Jim: We did a musical, called Death: the Musical. I haven't had time to
play lately because this play is demanding so much rewrite. (Jim plays
with a 3 piece folk style band)
I'm trying to talk David into doing something. To get back into musical
theatre. He has a great ear for theatre.
Darren: Ritchie played in Cruiser. I have the LP.
David: The vinyl? Really I've never seen the vinyl. It's a great album.
More along the lines of progressive rock, similar to 10 CC, Supertramp,
that kinda thing. To me it was. Cruiser was a very meticulous band.
Interesting band.
Jim: You weren't involved with them?
David: No not at all. No, in a sense I was. (In the sense that) Cruiser
recorded the album and went on tour, opening for Burton Cummings in the
Maritimes. During the tour they got a phone call saying that London
records had gone belly up and that their manager had been committed to an
institution. So, the bottom dropped out. When they got back off the tour
they tried to hold it together, they began work on a second album but it
wasn't going anywhere. They disbanded and it then evolved into a project
that involved my brother and I. I was brought in, invited in on the new
project. The goal was to move to Toronto. We spent a year working towards
that goal and at the point where we were about to move, and I had already
committed myself, my wife at the time had found a job in Toronto and the
principle guys - Wally and Tom Rathie basically chickened out. It was
called project X. We also had a cover band with the same guys called
Dancer. That disbanded and I ended up in Toronto. I liked Cruiser, I saw
them live once or twice and I thought that they were a very tight band.
Steve: I recently got the 451 album with Jim Clench.
David: Yeah, 451 was an improvement on BTO. I thought the BTO stuff was
pretty awful.
Jim: Jimmy is a good writer. I always liked Jimmy's songs. His sound
isn't necessarily identifiable with the April Wine sound, so I can
understand why he hasn't had more tracks.
David: He's also not a prolific writer, he writes one song a year.
Jim: When we were at the reunion last year, I went up to see him. I was
working on a project and I said Jim, where's your songs man? And basically
he said, I got a few but not too many.
David: I understand the new April Wine album is going to have Jim Clench
singing Jimmy Clench songs and Brian Greenway signing Brian Greenway songs.
That's my impression. That's what I heard.
Jim: When I was in the studio last year, I heard a couple of tracks and
they were good. I think they were Myles' songs, that sounded like his
sound.
David: I don't think there's any question that the album is going to be
mainly Myles' songs. But I think the idea was to go backwards, to where
the band was doing some of Brian's songs earlier.
Jim: Like I said, Jimmy has a great rock n' roll voice. When he does
put out a tune and it's polished, it's a great tune.
David: Myles told us that the next album was going to have more
involvement from the other writers and the other singers.
Darren: One thing I admired about Myles was his ability to take established
songs and make them his own. "Tell Me Why" comes to mind."
David: Yes, "Tell Me Why" was a good cover.
Jim: Well that's what we were honed on right, doing covers.
David: Well if you were more or less an original band, then the idea of
taking a cover song and doing it like the original song was kind of
pointless.
Steve: I wanted to ask you guys about the Halifax scene at the time when
April Wine was just coming up.
David: Dutch Mason and Ritchie Oakley were there, Doug Billard. Doug is
now a postman down the street from where I live.
Jim: And you know who else? Remember FOX. I just met the guitar
player this week. Incredible guitar player. Can't remember his name.
David: Yeah, I remember the drummer from FOX. Bobbie Fisher. I used to
run into Bobby Fisher every once in a while. Pepper Tree were good, Timmy
on drums. Bob Quinn is still around. Saw a poster at St. Mary's and he's
doing some sort of seminar.
Do you remember the Jewish guy, the guy who used to book us around here.
Gold berg or something.
Jim: Yeah, I remember him.
David: he, for the last number of years, has owned Sunrise Records. Ran
into him last year, he happened to be at a Cats and Dogs show. Sunrise is
like Tower Records or Sam the Record Man.
David: Remember the Great Scots?
Jim: Yep
David: There's two Great Scots albums you can get now I'm going to get
them for Ritchie for his 50th birthday.
Jim: They have a reunion every year.
David: I heard that.
Jim: A friend of mine is the brother in law of Bill.
David: Bill Schnare. Bill taught me a lot of guitar. I heard that and I
thought that can't be, because the Great Scots didn't do anything and then
the Great Scots evolved into the Beavers. The Great Scots wore kilts and
the Beavers had the beaver haircuts. Well I thought that, they never did
anything, why would they have a reunion?
Jim: Well they went to the States. I think what happened was that one
or two of them were forced into the draft. They either had to be drafted
or to leave. Actually, I think the got drafted.
David: So, obviously Billy Schnare is still around ?
Jim: Billy's down in ???? (unable to make out audio)
his sister is married to a friend of mine, Cathey Schnare. They live out
in Timberlea.
David: I'd love to run into Billy Snare. He taught me his favourite
chord, this was back in 1966, or 67. I adopted his favourite chord and
made it mine, it was an "A" minor variation.
Kevin: Is there any authorized or unauthorized biographies of April Wine?
David: You guys would know more than we do, haha.
Jim: I mentioned it to Myles.
Darren:I said this a year ago to David [that David should write the book] because
he's been published.
David: Somebody would have to do it with Myles authorization. To do an
unauthorized biography, I couldn't get behind it. What would be the point.
Without Myles involvement, there wouldn't be any point for me to do it. I
couldn't get excited about it.
Jim: Somebody had sent me a CD booklet (from the box set) .
David: But that was unauthorized and Myles hated that.
Jim: Keith Brown did it. I thought it was pretty well done.
At this point we pulled out the booklet and David and Jim had a look and
eventually signed it.
Darren: Apparently there were two versions of this booklet.
David: And Myles had it re-done? Maybe?
Darren: Yes. The first one had a part where Myles stole a car or a truck.
Jim: He did. My brother was with him.
David: Which brother?
Jim: The blonde one, haha.. Good times.
David and Jim have a laugh at the old photos in the booklet.
Kevin: So who's feet are on the cover of the first album?
David: I always heard that it was the art director, Bob Lemm, there's
always been lots of jokes about whose feet they were.
David signs the book "On a Cold Road" and mentions that.
David: I haven't read the book yet. I have 6 copies. One for everybody
in my family and myself. And then I realized I had an aunt out in British
Columbia. Her son visited me just before Christmas, so I gave my copy to
him to give his mom.
Looking at the book " I look like Pee Wee Herman there", laughs.
Steve: What's the latest on the musical ,Jim ?
Jim: Well contracts are finalized. It's in the fall, Bette MacDonald is
in it. She has a tv show, its not bad. Actually I'm going to try to get
Donald K. Donald to come down and see the play.
Darren: Jim, so are you still working in the medical profession?
Jim: I am, I still work for the lab. I retire in a couple years. I
took the package so I could start getting back into writing. That's what I
love doing. Studio work, I'm not that crazy about being on the road too
much. I don't know what it is. I mean David loves it.
David: I still like the road.
Jim: Not that I wouldn't mind doing something, but this last couple
years, the most important thing was getting this musical together.
Darren: Where else but Halifax can you see a Celtic/Punk group or an
Afro/Celtic belly dancer? Haha
Jim: I think it's the same as it's always been. It's difficult to make
a living at it, its difficult. Because our population base is so small.
Conversation turned towards "Death: the Musical". Jim could not tell us
details before official announcement."
Jim: I've kept up the writing side, but not recording. I have tapes and
tapes and tapes laying around. Some have completed songs, some have half
songs, some have pieces. I now have a three piece jazz/blues act with
Morrow Scott-brown and Jim Faraday.
Darren: If David ever comes back to the Maritimes, you should put a band
together.
Jim: I'd like to write with him.
Conversation returned to an April Wine book of some sort.
David: The key would be getting Myles excited. There would have to have
some connection between him and the writers.
Jim: I think there has to be an opportunity to do a book, like this
year, this is the perfect year. Now if it was properly arranged, it would
be a great year for a cross Canada celebration - a book and an album, a CBC
film type of thing, who knows.
David: Here's another type of thing that could happen. If some CBC
producers or people decided it was time. And went to April Wine and said,
let's get together and do the whole thing.
Jim: I don't think it could be Myles going to somebody and saying, I'm
going to do this. It's the kind of thing where an independent producer or
promoter or something has to go to the business and say OK. I'd like to do
this with you this year because, da da da...
David: Another thing too. Here's a perspective that we might not take
into consideration. I wonder if Myles wouldn't look at something like that
and say if April Wine gets in the Juno Hall of Fame, CBC gets involved,
they do a book, they do a cross Canada tour, a video retrospective , da da
da . When that's done, anything April Wine does after that is like
anti-climatic.
Darren: Maybe there are some that feel they already peaked in 1984.
David: Yeah, but just the idea of doing that big splash, and then Myles
thinking that it's all over, and then it's back to playing the bars again
and it's all anti-climax.
Conversation turned to set lists.
David: Maybe he thinks in terms of April Wine fans as a group. They are
there to hear the hits, so individual requests aren't a factor.
Time winding down, took a few photos, online talk started.
Jim: I'm not online, but I've seen the April Wine Cellar. I thought it
was well done.
David: The nice thing about the Internet is that you end up staying in
contact with people you normally wouldn't stay in contact with. One of my
internet buddies is Danny Marks, who was the guitar player in Edward Bear.
So we 're always chatting back and forth on the internet. Normally we
wouldn't have a lot in common, so instead of calling each other up, the
internet is easier. Plus it's not intrusive. You don't call up somebody
you don't know.
Conversation turned to Jerry Mercer.
Jim: I'm going to Montreal in 2 or 3 weeks. I'll try to get in contact
with him.
We showed Jim and David the digital photos. They thought it was great to
be able to see them right away.
Last 5 minutes was guitar talk, etc...
On behalf of Darren, Kevin, and I we would like to thank both David and Jim
Henman for their time and a great afternoon. Very memorable session and
hopefully we'll hook up at another time in the not so distant future. I'd
also like to thank my wife,Tammy, for doing all the typing here. So if
there are any mistakes, you know who to blame, ha.
Steve Marsh
Dartmouth, N.S.
DAVID HENMAN: interview Apr'99
1. Could you talk about the recording sessions for the first AW album
and provide any interesting details or tidbits that you recall ?
These sessions, which took place at a now-defunct RCA studio in Montreal,
were produced by Bill Hill. I can't recall the engineer - could have been
Bill also. I guess the album credits will tell. Bill didn't do much, just
sat there playing with the echo fader and telling stories. He was a local
guitarist with some success. I don't know what he's doing now.
I don't remember much about the sessions. We were all pretty green. I was
happy with the two songs I contributed - "Oceana" and "Page Five" - that's
what I was into at the time. However, hopefully I've improved somewhat as a
songwriter since then.
2. Same question for "On Record".
With "On Record" they (management, record company, publisher) brought in a
slick New York producer named Ralph Murphy, who had some success with a
song called "Happy Valley PTA" (can't recall whether he wrote, produced or
both). He was a "pop" producer, with specific ideas about making a
"commercial" record.
He was also a wacky, very funny dude who started off his day with a bottle
of Johnny Walker Red. He has been working in Nashville and Vancouver for
the last decade or so, and I run into him now and again. Always great to
see him!
Again, I don't remember much. Can't even remember where we recorded, or who
the engineer was. I remember bringing Keith Jollities, who we knew from
Halifax, in to play a horn part on something. Ralph kept us laughing
throughout much of the session.
At some point, either during these sessions or the ones for "Electric
Jewels", we ran into drummer Jim Norris, whose band was also recording, in
Toronto. A couple of decades later Jim would hire me as the editor of
Norris Publications (Canadian Musician, etc).
I have always liked "Refuge", which was inspired by reading "Steppenwolf"
by Herman Hesse, as well as works by Sarte, and "The Trial" by Kafka. Myles
later used the "Refuge" doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doot guitar riff on "Wings Of
Love", which is very flattering.
We were all shocked when we heard the final mix with the between-song
segues. My recollection is that we unanimously hated them.
Also, we didn't like "Could Have Been A Lady", but agreed to record it because
1/ We were assured it would be a hit and
2/ We were told that we could "toughen it up." (We were disciples of Led
Zeppelin at the time.)
When Ralph sent us in to the studio to sing the na-na-na-na-na-nas, we kept
cracking up, so he went in and sang them himself. Later, Myles added his
voice.
Personally, I've never liked the song. Same goes for "Bad Side of the
Moon." I really hated my guitar solo on "Lady", until Kelly Jay from
Crowbar told me it was one of his favourites.
3. I'd like to hear more about one of the all time great AW tracks,
"Drop Your Guns". Can you explain what,where,how,why, etc. Just a general
overview of the track, and how the rest of the band perceived it, when you
brought it to the group ??
The story of "Drop Your Guns" is well-documented, but I'll have another go
at it. We mostly sang the songs we wrote, but I was never much of a singer,
although I refused to give up. Anyway, I went into the studio, stepped up
to the mic, and nervously did a "take". Ralph came on the talkback and,
laughing, told me to come into the control room. He had everyone rolling on
the floor, laughing hysterically. He said: "You sound like an undertaker!
Myles, get in there and sing that sucker!" Myles kind of "read" the song
off the lyric sheet, and I always felt resentful that it was an unemotional
performance. In retrospect, it is probably just fine. "Drop Your Guns"
became a top ten hit in Canada, but wasn't released in the US, we were
told, because it was perceived as an anti-war, protest song, at a time when
emotions were running high over the Vietnam war. As a result of that song's
success in Canada, I have been given three platinum (actually one platinum
and one double platinum) and two gold albums. The song's main riff was
lifted from "Shine On" by Humble Pie.
4. Who were/are your favorite guitarists ? Your favorite guitars -
Gibsons or Strats and why ?
Jeff Beck is number one. Hendrix is, of course, the one who changed the
way everyone thought about the instrument. The Ventures and The Shadows got
me interested in the first place. I've been heavily influenced by Mark
Knopfler, Jimmy Page, Eddy Van Halen and David Gilmour. Myles has also been
one of my favourite guitarists, and favourite singers as well. I've also
become a fan of the Hellecasters, the late Danny Gatton, Vince Gill (hugely
underrated!), Kim Mitchell, Sonny Landreth, Jeff Healey, Joe Satriani, and
the guy who plays for Chris Isaac. My rhythm playing is mostly inspired by
"Keef". I love "discovering" good guitarists!
I've been playing a Strat for the past ten years, and can't remember why
I've ever played anything else. I also own a gorgeous Telecaster, and play
through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, although I'd love to luck into a pre-CBS
Princeton. I'm currently shopping for a good, Canadian-made acoustic.
5. Why didn't the DUDES go further in the business. They were a
supergroup of sorts, what happened there ??
The album bombed so badly, and we hated it so much, there was little reason
to continue. We never officially disbanded - just gradually drifted apart.
We were very disillusioned by the way it happened. We were "discovered" my
Mark Spector, a staff producer at Columbia, although we had been fielding
offers from other big companies. Mark instigated the deal, the biggest
signing that year by Columbia, and led us into a management deal with Fred
Heller, who was managing Mott the Hoople, Phoebe Snow and Blood Sweat and
Tears. Our lawyer was the American partner of the Beatles' manager. Mark
sold us on his "vision" of the album, and we subsequently relinquished too
much control over it. He buried it in reverb and echo, so much so that it
sounded, to us, as if it was recorded under water. We insisted on a remix,
but were told to chill - Columbia said it was going to be a hit.
There are so many Dudes stories!!!
6. Influences:
a.) songwriting
b.) fav band(s)
My favourite songwriters include Vince Gill, Pink Floyd, Brian Adams, Blue
Rodeo, the Hollies, the Byrds, Buddy Holly, Roy Orbison, Gene Pitney,
Myles, my partner (Glenn Reid), George Jones and Hank Williams.
People I would pay to see perform include Emmylou Harris, Blue Rodeo,
Travis Tritt, Vince Gill, the Hellecasters, Wynona, Bette Midler, Wide
Mouth Mason, Radiohead, Satriani/G3, Jeff Beck, Springsteen, the Stones,
Goddo, Andrea Bocelli, Celine Dion and Waylon Jennings.
The best concert I've ever seen was the first Bruce Springsteen show at the
Montreal forum. The second best was Bette Midler.
7. We'd all like to hear more about the early 70's Canadian Music
scene. And what were things like in the Record business (DKD & Aquarius)
and management side of the coin ???
I could, and probably should, write a book. A question like this might be
better saved for a taped interview.
8. Any words or memories of other Canadian music colleagues of yours
at the time, like Lighthouse,Guess Who,Stampeders,Chilliwack,Abraham's
Children, A Foot In Coldwater, Mahogany Rush, 5 Man Electrical Band,
Crowbar, Minglewood, etc. (Canadian content time, ha)
My favourite memories are of the early days growing up in Nova Scotia, include:
* Working on a farm when I was 15 and spending Friday and Saturday
nights watching a band called the Atomics, with their shiny Fender guitars
and Fender or Ampeg amps, playing mostly instrumental stuff by the Venture
and the Shadows.
* Going to dances where bands like the Lincolns, the Axemen, the
Great Scots/Beavers, the Bad Seeds, the Bad Bunch, Matt Minglewood and many
others performed. Favourite musicians included Brian Ahern, Ritchie Oakley,
Jackie Harris, Frank Mackay, Bill Schnare etc
* Discovering Canadian music from other provinces via a daily
television show at 5:30 on CBC. (eg Lenny Breau, the Collectors/Chilliwack,
the Guess Who.)
* Going to see touring bands like Bartholomew Plus Three from
Montreal (Corky Laing played drums), the Guess Who, a Stytch in Tyme, the
Staccatos (Five Man Electrical Band), Ugly Ducklings, and the "white soul"
bands from Toronto.
* The Stampeders are among the nicest people I have ever met, and
I've met a lot of nice people.
9. Memorable gigs with AW? As headliners or openers? Also, did you
ever play in the States? How were things, when YCBA Lady and Drop Your
Guns hit big in Canada, and also some US airplay ??
* Doing a sound check at our first big show (Montreal Forum) and
hearing a clavinet playing along with "Work All Day", turning around and
seeing Stevie Wonder jamming with us!!!!
* Opening for the original Ike and Tina Turner Revue in Quebec city.
I had never seen anything like that.
* Performing in Philly on the back of a flatbed truck at some outdoor
shopping centre, in the pouring rain, with Frigid Pink, Dr Medicine etc,
and living to tell the tale.
* Playing in front of 40,000 people a Place Des Nations with a dozen
other Canadian bands, including the Guess Who, whose gear we all used.
* Having Brave Belt open for us, offering to help us carry our amps
and drums, and not too long after becoming world famous as BTO.
* Getting drunk with Burton Cummings, and him remembering every
detail about it some 25 years later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
* Trying to pick up a woman at a club in Vancouver during a sound
check, only to find out she was Mrs Terry Flood, wife of our manager. (Good
one, Henman!)
* Touring with the Bee Gees in All the Young Dudes.
* Teaching Keith Richards how to play guitar. Hello!?
10. What are you doing in the near future? Future plans down the road
a piece ??
Lose weight. Get a haircut and get a real job. Turn myself in and finish my
jail term. Save up for a bottle of cheap bourbon.
Play and record as often as possible, continue to write songs. I hope to
record an instrumental album one of these days. I am happiest when I'm
rehearsing with a band.
JIM HENMAN
"I will be acting as music consultant in co-op with the musical director
and director. My work has been to write and arrange the music and songs.
I will be attending a few of the performances but I can't say which at this
time. We are also in negotiations with another major city for performances
in the spring. There will be some producers from the States coming to
Halifax to view the play."
JIM HENMAN: interview Apr'99
1. Jim, your memories of the sessions for the first April Wine album ??
On the first album, I recall on ''Song For Mary'' there was a special
experience in the studio, a peaceful quiet feeling . I believe the
others present, if they recall that moment,will agree. I believe
someone said that it meant the feel was captured.
It was generally a good experience,but so long ago. "Fast Train" was
catchy and still is a commercially appealing tune.
2. What was your role for the "On Record" sessions ?
I was not on the second album. I left while preparing for it.
3. Could speak about your influences in music and songwriting ?
As far as songwriting influences. I have to say that any one who wrote
a song that
I liked and was well crafted musically and lyrically. As well as the
classical,jazz and blues artists i have enjoyed listening to. I really
don't have a favorite band . I tend to listen to the music, not the
group or artist. There are some people that I respect as writers and
performers, such as Eric Clapton, John MacLaughlin,Jerry Granelli ,
Shirley Eikhart,Paul MacCartney,Colin James,Keith Richards and Myles
along with
many more to numerous to mention.
4. Have you a favorite live gig memory?
Biggest memories are playin for 40,000 people, I believe at Place des
Nations in Montreal.
5. Any other memorable experiences, you'd care to share ?
Nothing although I did find you could date a young lady and not have
to speak the same language.
6. How about touring with other Canadian acts at that time ?
Arm wrestling with Burton Cummings and getting beat!
7. Did you always play bass in those days ?
I have always played bass in rock setting but in the blues /jazz idiom
I prefer guitar.
8. Prism and /or Woody's Termites. What kind of tunes were you guys
doing at this point in time ??
Prism - artistic, Moody Blues etc. ; nice sound,tight, good band.
Woodies Termites - cover band ,a few originals. The start of writing for
Myles and I.
9. What are your plans in the foreseeable future?
I am working with another performer as a songwriter providing songs for
recording and performing. The jazz/blues trio will become more active
when Death come towards this
falls production. A cd is in the works and some performing in the soft
seaters around NS and NB. This is all I can give you at this time.
